Alex goes to the comic shop, pt 2

[terra]

So sometimes I post on those giant comics messageboards. It can be cool, I've had discussions with creators/had Ed Brubaker tell me to stop being so continuity-obsessive, but oftentimes it reminds me what a cesspit of racism and misogyny the comics fandom can be. Like, yesterday, when I stumbled upon this gem of a post:

Marvel is loaded with strong and aggressive SuperHeroines. The negative quality of the Sue Storm's leadership is that portraying her as aggressive and extremely powerful makes her just another Marvel SuperHeroine. Some of us old timer guys still think that Sue is most effective when she emphasizes her traditional feminine qualities that she excelled at during the Silver Age (or should I say "Golden Age" of Stan and Jack), such as crying, screaming, acting afraid, being a wonderful mother, looking gorgeous, having to be saved by the men a lot, etc.

Yeah, this guy is confirmed not a troll, and several people either flat-out agreed with him, or parrotted his general thesis in slightly less blatantly offensive terms. (It's not that Sue can't lead because of her gender, it's because she's too much like a overemotional adulterous single mom!!) A fair number of sane people pointed out...you know, that this stuff is crazy sexist. But it just reminded me that one of the (many) reasons women are underrepresented in comics is because quite a few comics fans are misogynist toolbags. And one thing I can personally do to help counter this phenomenon is to buy a ton of comics featuring the ladies.

tl;dr rec me some comics involving womenfolk

Comments

[cuddlesquid.livejournal.com]

I remember Kabuki being wicked awesome, but all my issues of it are elsewhere and I have no idea if it's still going on so uh. There's that. ._.

Girl Genius has loads of awesome ladies from the title character on down.

I was incredibly fond of Meridian and Ruse but I have no idea what happened to CrossGen so... can you tell I don't read a lot of mainstream superhero stuff..............

Also TANK GIRL ALWAYS AND FOREVER

[insourarmor.livejournal.com]

/sees you

[terra]

I have some issues w/David Mack just because I found out how much of his stuff he was plagiarizing. But I can still check out Kabuki.

I already follow Girl Genius :) Foglios!

I've heard good things about Ruse already. AND AM GENRALLY FOND OF THE CROSSGEN STABLE of artists.

Is there a reccomended place to start with Tank Girl or could I just pick up one of the recent specials?

[insourarmor.livejournal.com]

Welcome to Fandom, just as biased and intolerant as real life but cleverly masked by enabled perverts. Seriously, it's stunning.


I CAN'T BELIEVE I GOT TO USE BANANAZI.GIF

I also honest to God wish I could think of some comics for you where the women are not either background characters, shallow love interests, or boobs with lines.

[taughttolisten.livejournal.com]

....................................why is

there's a

with a banana and





the fuck, sennet

[terra]

I can think of plenty and would even go so far to say Marvel and DC are generally making an effort in that area and turning out some good books. The vast majority of comics I follow don't feature women as boobs with lines, even if we still definitely deal with the Women in Refrigerators problems//major issues with rape tropes. Even Sue Storm as the Invisible Girl c. 1964 was not as helpless as this dude is making her out to be. She probably cried less than Ben, generally rescued herself instead of waiting for the team to do it. THERE WERE STILL MAJOR PROBLEMS don't get me wrong, but I always feel bad blanketly condemning a genre as sexist b/c that leaves no space to improve or celebrate female characters.

tl;dr, I know

[liebe_krieg]

I will now have the Major do that ICly at some point.

[shockheadedpete.livejournal.com]

iZombie: the protagonist is Gwen, a zombie, who makes her living as a gravedigger. She has to eat a brain once a month, so she digs up the dead, but gets stuck with their memories and has to solve their mysteries.

American Vampire: A young female movie extra inthe 1920's is eaten by vampires and thrown in a ditch, but survives. Now she's a vampire, and she's going to kick their mother fucking asses.

Planetary: Jakita Wagner is the strongest member of the team. Whenever they need to fight anything, everyone else basically moves a safe distance away do she can slaughter, which she enjoys. She also enjoys jumping out of planes and dating old men. Bonus: the villains are the reverse evil Fantastic Four, and they meet Batman.

Secret Skull: a hideous, ugly skeleton stalks the night killing bad guys in gruesome ways. Turns out it's a she. Secret Skull is now making appearances in Mystery Society (#2 out today).

Top 10: Has multiple examples of strong females, particulary Jack Phantom, who is also a very vocal lesbian, and not even the lipstick kind.

Tank Girl: do I even have to...?

[terra]

I have some of those!! I was sorta worried American Vampire was just...you know, a Twilight cash-in project, but if it's good I can pick it up I know my shop has issues.

Do you have a reccommended starting point for Tank Girl?

[eppy]

I want to punch men like that right in the mouth.

Josh Whedon's Fray comic was actually really good.

[terra]

BUT THAT'S AN OVEREMOTIONAL WOMANLY RESPONSE

Man I hate that catch-22.

And yes, I'm a Buffy fan, I have read it.

[meowminx.livejournal.com]

As much as I whinge about Gotham City Sirens being too fluffy, they aren't doing a bad job with making a comic about female leads feel natural. Any "girliness" comes from the nature of the characters without them being forced into going on dates or painting each others toenails.

[terra]

Is there a good jump-on point with that, or should I attempt to find issue #1 and go from there?

Also what Catwoman trades to you reccomend?

[ajrimmer-ssc.livejournal.com]

ElfQuest.

The old stuff from the late '70s/early '80s for preference. Wendy Pini might be a scary old hippie but lawd does she know how to write good women characters. Also, she would show up at Cons dressed as Red Sonja.

Also, that guy on that forum needs to be slapped around for a bit.

[terra]

Is this collected in trade? I know of one library I could get it from if not.

AND YEAH. He is a special old-timer guy.

[onlyoneflaw.livejournal.com]

You should read Claremont's new X-Women, it's a totally amazing celebration of women.

...except not really. It's actually insanely insulting and you should never read it. Ever.

But I do have a recommendation: WildCats: Nemesis is pretty good. Heralds by Marvel wasn't really horrible. Batwoman is pretty good. Fallen Angel is pretty neat in my opinion. Other recs:

Anna Mercury
Cyberforce
Hunter-Killer

[terra]

WELL IT IS CLAREMONT ++ FAMOUS PORN ARTIST

I read Heralds. I am just...not sure what happened in it.

And I just bought the Batwoman prestige hardcover or whatever but have not unwrapped it yet. The other stuff: awesome I'll be on the look out.

[badhorsefan.livejournal.com]

How can anyone be 'most effective' when crying and screaming? But anyway, comics.

Gotham City Sirens: Yeah, it's kinda fluffy but the characterization is wonderful, all three leads are female and it's a really fun book.

Power Girl: At least the Palmotti, Grey and Conner run. I haven't read it since it swapped creative teams. But this is another really fun book. Power Girl's a strong, female character and the supporting cast (namely Terra) are also good female characters. Plus, you've got just as much normal problems (Karen starting up a company) as superhero problems (big ugly monsters and finding places to change into her costume).

[badhorsefan.livejournal.com]

OH YEAH and Patsy Walker: Hellcat because it is the funniest, most wonderful thing to come out of Marvel in the past few years. It's a miniseries that came out...a yearish maybe ago and you'll have to buy back issues but it's worth it.

[hexappeal]

Gotta wonder how they even know how to use a computer, considering they live in BACKWARDS 1950s LAND.

I have a lot of problems with the Army of Darkness comic (mostly post vs. Re-Animator, especially from Montezuma's Revenge onward) and... the chicks are kinda slutty, but still very bad ass. What makes it special for me, though, is I really started to love Sheila because of it. The art eventually goes downhill and the story sucks, but I still recommend it!

As for the usual HURR HURR I LOVE DCU MAGICIANS, I have to suggest Shadowpact. Even though Nightmaster's the leader, Enchantress pretty much beats the hell out of everyone -- even better, the only fan that I'm aware has ever complained about anything involving the characters has been me because they aren't popular enough. :) They often slip under the radar and the artists and writers can take liberties with the characters that might not otherwise be granted because they're a bunch of nobodies. Plus:




I love her.

[terra]

Oh, I like Marvel magic a lot so I should also like DC magic, right?? Awesome.

[enigmaestro.livejournal.com]

The really funny thing is how that guy's statement is ripe with his own emotional bias rather than, say, logic. How is that effective behavior, precisely? Who decided those are "traditional feminine qualities"? Is he not asking himself these critical questions? There is a difference between being an "old-timer" and living with your head up your backside.

ANYWAY Simone's Secret Six is quite the read. Aside from interesting character dynamics, I really enjoy how extremely minor characters were explored for depth--especially Scandal Savage, who is truly the voice of reason in this group.

[terra]

Yeah, well, he just has a disturbing fetish for blond women in peril and is letting that dictate his direction for Marvel Comics. There is a point to be made about fictional woman characters clinging to the same definition of "empowered" and in this way reinforcing gender binaries. And really. "Traditional feminine qualities." I cannot even. He refuses to call her the Invisible Woman instead of Invisible Girl, because that's going too far.

I've heard that Simone is doing really well on that, do you have a recommended staring issue?

[iamjaimesommers.livejournal.com]

I hear ya about crazy sexists in comics fandom... I was just getting frustrated about that over in tabletop RP gamer fandom as well... it's like there's this enclave of early Victorian anti-feminist values in the geek world, and it needs to be destroyed, seriously.

Marvel I know less well, although the one comic I read, X-Men Legacy, seems to handle its female heroines pretty well generally speaking. I particularly like what they do with Rogue there.

DC:
Birds of Prey: It's JUST started its new run, so it's a good time to get on board (but TPBs from the previous volume are also recommended). It's being written by Gail Simone who is an excellent writer IMO and handles the nearly-all-female cast extremely well. Currently stars Oracle, Black Canary, Huntress, Lady Blackhawk, Hawk, and Dove.

Gotham City Sirens: I see others have recced this as well; it's a villains/wild card book featuring Catwoman, Harley Quinn, and Poison Ivy; also tends to treat the characters well and with respect. Paul Dini (Harley's creator, IIRC) wrote the first several issues and the current writer is Tony Bedard who hasn't pissed me off yet, at least. He seems to be doing a good job so far.

I WOULD recommend Wonder Woman (and might suggest back issue/trades between 15 and 40 or so, or from the end of the previous volume when Rucka was writing it) but it's just been handed to J. Michael Straczynski, who is the 8,243,124th writer to decide to come along and completely re-do the continuity and promises TO FIX EVERYTHING REALLY. AND LOOK IT'S FEMINIST NOW BECAUSE SHE'S WEARING PANTS. *vows to shove Dan Didio into a shark's mouth someday. Anyway* Although... maybe at least take a look at #600 to see Lynda Carter's introduction, where she has a much more sane and inspiring discussion of what being a female superhero really should mean. For example, "She [Wonder Woman] is the "Secret Self" inside every woman--the beautiful, unafraid, tenacious, and powerful woman we know resides within us."

Other comics:
I've seen recs for Girl Genius already and I would definitely second/third/fourth that, although I do get annoyed with some of the love interest stuff. But generally, well written, strong female characters.

I don't know if it's good right now, but if you're a Buffy fan, you might see what the Buffy comic is up to.

[terra]

Yeah some aspects of geek culture are a real haven for misogyny. I am a big gamer, too, so I've had some... interesting encounters there. When I play tabletop I do so with a largely female group so that's been nice. But when I went to a demo-game at the local shop they separated our heavily female group into a special beginners section.

I'm a big fan of the current Black Widow run if you are looking for something from Marvel. Female lead with a female writer. But I might be...extremely biased.

I've been following BoP from the relaunch, but is there any particular BoP trade you would recommend?

I made a post about WONDER WOMAN IN PANTS. But I've been thinking of trying to find the Rucka run for a while. I like Diana in a badass leather skirt personally! I did buy issue 600. I really liked the story with the cat.

[donttasemebro]

If 13-year-olds count as women and semi-interactive web-based comics/flash animations count as comics, I implore you to go check out Homestuck at MS Paint Adventures. Rose is easily the most competent character in the main cast and gets to turn into just as much of a badass as any of the other kids, if not more, and Jade is a cute precognitive waif who's weaponkind is hunting rifles and is never implied to not be able to hold her own. Here, have some completely out of context epic to tempt your palate.

Especially check out the recent Troll arc, which has some straight-up awesome and hilarious girl characters whose character traits for the most part have absolutely nothing to do with them being girls. I am even considering apping Terezi, I love her so much ljsadhgla.

/pimps Homestuck to everybody

[terra]

Yeah go ahead, all recs are welcome and web stuff is easy for everyone to check out.

[badumtish.livejournal.com]

I don't know what comics you have/haven't read and I don't read many comics with girl-leads so I'll list ones that have good female characters? Does that work?

Um. Definitely Kabuki.
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen maybe? Mina's kind of cool.
Ed Brubaker's Incognito has got some really awesome female characters.
If you haven't read Fables, there's that.

And as bad as this may sound, old-school Colleen Wing was pretty badass. But you'd have to put up with terrible 70's/80's writing and I doubt the stuff she was in was collected into trades.

Also: I feel my list is totally useless.

[terra]

Of course that works.

But I...read everything Brubaker puts out under the Icon label. You know they are making an Incognito vol 2?

The only thing I have of real oldschool Colleen and/or Misty Knight stuff is this issue where there are lesbian vampires...

JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS THAT EXISTS

ALSO: YOUR LIST IS NOT USELESS

[rockpet.livejournal.com]

Most of the things I would rec have already been so, but if you'd like a comic where most of the females are generally intelligent, practical and level headed types and aren't really particular on what species they are, then there's Digger by Ursula Vernon. It's collected in trades up to a certain point, but more easily found online.

(Family Man and Bite Me! are also webcomics I would recommend. They're both by the same woman. Family Man is the more serious one and Bite Me! is rollicking good vampire fun set in the French Revolution. It's wacky and will have none of this Twilight nonsense.)

Boneyard has a small female cast, but everyone in that cast is pretty endearing. That's all been collected in trades by now.

Also...Rapunzel's Revenge... Really it's aimed more for a younger audience, but harken back to the days when we had all those Marvel Adventure comics, exchange the superheroes for a princess and set it in the Wild West.

[terra]

Excellent, excellent, thanks for the recommendations. They're much appreciated.

[superspeeds]

This is going to sound horrible but uhh... I actually avoid comics with female main characters because the vast majority of them make me cringe and feel the need to punch somebody in the face.

However.

NYX: No Way Home is pretty decent and it was written by a woman. You kind of need to read the first NYX to get it (or just read the wiki), but yeah. The Nomad mini from last summer is really good, though I assume you've already caught that. Oh also, the Strange mini featured a decently portrayed teenage girl. I mean, yeah she was ditzy, but I felt it was pretty realistic.

Now if only I could find some well-written women.

[terra]

If you liked NYX No Way Home (which I...didn't) you should check out Black Widow. Same writer, and the quality improved.

Dr. Strange is actually my favorite character. Also. :)

I could give you recs— or you could check out the rest of this post. But I'd need to know what makes you want to punch somebody in the face.

[123youreit.livejournal.com]

Most of the titles I'd rec have been covered already XD But I am kind of intrigued by Hack/Slash. The premise seems interesting, and the design of the lead character appeals to my aesthetics, but I haven't actually read any (yet) so I don't know if it's any good. It does have some trades out, according to Wiki.

[hexappeal]

It's actually fairly good, if not a little hipster (mostly because of fandom + Suicide Girl endorsement + potential film??), but if you can get past that, it's worth reading.

The problem with the trades (and the comic itself) was there was a very low print run, so it tends to be a little on the pricey side (the Re-Animator crossover issues alone can run about $10 each hnnngh). It's definitely one of the better horror comics out there (but considering the only other option is Zenescope and like, Grimm's Fairy Tales and their Alice in Wonderland -- both of which I found really shallow and lacking in story-telling, as well as unnecessary thongs/g-strings for "powerful women!" etc., well...). I wasn't entirely fond of the Re-Animator crossover, mostly because it seemed to follow the Beyond Re-Animator storyline, but West lacked any of the brilliance he was known for. Too slapstick and bloody.

TL;DR, if you like horror films (especially of the B variation), you will probably like Hack/Slash.

[whipitperfect.livejournal.com]

I've only skimmed for now but I didn't see Bone listed?

The titular character of Bone is male, yes, but the series kinda revolves around a female character when you dig right down to the basic plot. And Thorn is awesome. Besides which Bone is just amazing in general and everyone should read it.

[bedeviledspider.livejournal.com]

Shockingly, I am going to recommend the Spider-Girl/MC2 verse in general (and the Spider-Girl series and American Dream mini specifically). The fact that DeFalco has filled that world with so many awesome superheroines (leading teams! wearing sensible costumes! not being beaten, raped or fridged!) is probably the thing I adore most about it. Although, uh, you'll need to have a high tolerance for corniness and deep misunderstandings of how the kids talk these days.

Also Batgirl in general. The older stuff especially, but the current book is good too, aside from hurling Cass under the bus (whyyyyy DC).

As for webcomics... I am madly in love with Girls with Slingshots (http://www.girlswithslingshots.com/) at the moment.

[batghoul.livejournal.com]

I will admit that I can hardly even read the new Batgirl book because I'm still so mad about what happened to Cass, and how the writer is like "I'll use Cass is I absolutely have to, but only then! What does she have to do with Batgirl and Steph anyway?" and I just get so mad that I start throwing things and posting on message boards.